Defeat Your Business Monsters: A D&D Framework for Entrepreneurs Battling Fear and Faiure

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is an Undiscovered Legacy Production and prod member of Pod Nation Media Network.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

The imposter syndrome is actually a monster that I use, and it's a lot like a mimic because the imposter syndrome basically constantly changes the way that it appears, but it always becomes the thing that you want to be, but you don't think that you're strong enough to become. And so the easiest way to defeat the imposter syndrome is to become the thing that it is it is in front of you. And so what we do is we teach a lot about that. So that's that's an easy one there. Failure, to me, failure is always a trap. I love a good trap. And the way that we conquer failure is we say it's not a stop, it's a step. You can always disarm the trap. And so it's looking at it from a different perspective.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Are you ready to unlock your entrepreneur potential? Are you ready to break free from all the barriers holding you back? Then you've come to the right place. Welcome to the Undiscovered Entrepreneur, your first step in getting across the start line. Let's get across that start line together. Right here, right now, on the Undiscovered Entrepreneur. Salutation, Scoobelievers, and we're here again with another amazing entrepreneur. Today we're here with Paul. Hey Paul, how's it going? It's going pretty well, Scoob. How are you? Fantastic. Thank you so, so much for taking the time out of you for your day to be on the Undiscovered Entrepreneur, get across the start line. Super, super appreciate you. Not a problem. I'm happy to be here. This should be a lot of fun. This is gonna be a blast, I can tell already. But I do kind of have a semi-serious question to ask you before we get started here, okay? Okay. Okay, here we go. Are you a school believer? Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, you should have heard the scuba we had just before we got started here. It was absolutely fantastic. We could have been doing it all day, but we wanted to make sure we took care of you first. So uh, Paul, right off the bat, I want to tell you, I could already tell we're gonna get along great. I could look at the background and my nerd brain just explodes about what's going on behind you. So you know this quote this uh this interview is gonna be amazing. But let's start with uh, you know, exactly who you are, what your entrepreneur adventure is, and how you actually got across the start line in your entrepreneur adventure.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

All righty. Well, my name is Paul Pape. Uh, I am known as Santa for nerds, and I earned that nickname doing about 20 years of custom creations for people all around the world, but also companies like Disney Universal and Nickelodeon. I am a fabricator and a designer of what would be considered custom collectibles. Basically, if there's something that you want that you can't find anywhere else, I'm the guy you go to for that. So that's really where my business has started. And then uh from there, I I did, like I said, it's been 20 years. So I've done a lot of things within that time period. And one of them was I spent six years on Twitch. Uh, for those of you who don't aren't familiar with the platform, it's like YouTube, but live. Uh, I come from a theater background, so I really like the idea of doing live uh work with people. And um, so what I would do is I'd actually do my art in front of a camera five days a week for about six to eight hours a day. And during that time, what I was constantly asked by the people watching my show is how are you being how are how is this possible that you can be an artist and make a living at it? Like, what do you how do you figure out charts? All the questions that creatives would ask, they were asking me. And I was answering them over and over again. And at one point, I came to the conclusion that I should just like do that, you know, do be the person who just answers those questions. And so on the side, I started doing a consulting job. And uh, so I was consulting other creatives on how to do this. And what I realized throughout that brief period was that they didn't understand business at all. I could tell them all the answers. It just went right over their head or their eyes glazed over and it just became too much work. They didn't want to deal with it. And so I was hired by this company. Uh, they're a bunch of creatives. There's three of them. They're uh creatives, they had a dragon-making company, and they were doing really well. They were doing like seven figures on paper. But then when I went to talk to them, they're like, Well, we need you to hire you because we don't understand business and we're not doing well. I'm like, Well, you're making seven figures. Like, yeah, but we're netting about $50,000. I'm like, that's a huge, that's a huge discrepancy there. So I'm like, yeah, absolutely. And so I sat down with them, I went out to where they live, and you're doing a live consultation. I was sitting there with them and I asked them a simple question, you know, what is it that you guys do within the business? And they look at me and they're like, oh, we do everything. All of us do everything all the time. I'm like, yeah, that's a great way to fail at your business. So why don't we say, what do you do specifically? What's your main job? And so they told me, and I'm like, well, how do how do you interact with this? I'm like, we we don't know. I said, okay, how about this? I know you're nerds, I'm nerd, big nerd guys, and they're big into gaming. I'm big into gaming. And so I said, How about this? I want to come back tomorrow and we're gonna, I don't know, play Dungeons and Dragons Business Edition. And what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna make it up. We're gonna do a campaign, but instead of playing like a warrior or a mage or a rogue, you're gonna play your role in the business. And the monsters that we're going to encounter are not gonna be the traditional monsters, they're going to be monsters of things that you'll tackle in business. Things like the scope creeper, which is like a representation of the scope creep, things like that. And so I came back the next day and just kind of like was winging it. We went through, played for about four hours. And then after that, the CEO of the company, he's like, Is this what business is? Because I think I finally understand it and it's a lot of fun. And I'm like, aha, I think I got something here. And that was kind of the birth of gamified business. And what we do with gamified business is I am a basically a business consultant to creatives, but instead of talking to them about traditional business advice and structure, I turn it all into a live role-playing game, basically Dungeons and Dragons for business. And we do that. We go through, we create character sheets, which is who you are in your business. We figure out what your campaign is supposed to be about, which is what your business is about. And then we go and we go looking for groups, which is why this looks like a tavern, because I play the barkeep. Because of course, in role-playing game, where do you meet the group? You meet them at the tavern, right? And so I play the barkeep. And so what we do is I go in there and we do these campaigns. And I work with that company, and they ended up, after about six months, they ended up quadrupling the amount of money that they're bringing in. And it's continued to rise ever since, which has been really great. And so that was really the birth of this whole thing. And that's how I got to where I am now.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

What a fantastic story. And I love the idea of it too. Hey, Scooby-Lavers, just so you know, that's not AI behind him, y'all. That is an actual setup behind him. He actually pulled that sword out of earth. It's tangible. It's tangible, yeah. I just wanted to get that out of the way. Because mine, not so much. Okay. Right. But the thing that really kind of kind of sticks out for me, especially in that particular story, is how you learn to speak the language of your customer, right? The normal stuff isn't working. So we have to be able to speak to our customers in the right way for them to go have that aha moment, just like your your customer had their. Oh, yeah, now I get it. So when you're going along here, make sure you understand what your audience is actually listening to and understanding. Because if they don't understand what you're saying, then it's just not going to work.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

All right. And also uh the monsters in the business always has intrigued me because I actually have several monsters that I've been trying to put a face to for the longest time is doing my podcast. So I this is kind of this is kind of for me, y'all. So I I apologize. Okay, so I the four hurdles will stop the four things I always talk about imposter center, perfectionism, failure, and fear. If you were to put those aspects into, say, a monster or someone like that in your game, what do you think they would look like, or what do you think they would be like?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

The imposter syndrome is actually a monster that I use, and it's a lot like a mimic because the imposter syndrome basically constantly changes the way that it appears, but it always becomes the thing that you want to be, but you don't think that you're strong enough to become. And so the easiest way to defeat the imposter syndrome is to become the thing that it is, it is in front of you. And so what we do is we teach a lot about that. So that's that's an easy one there. Uh the failure, to me, failure is always a trap. I love a good trap. And the way that we conquer failure is we say it's not a stop, it's a step. We can always disarm the trap. And so it's looking at it from a different perspective. We always come at uh our problems as as, especially with failures, is that oh man, I screwed it up, I'll never recover from this. What am I gonna do? And we get it up into our head. The best way to accomplish getting over that would would definitely be to look at it as a learning opportunity. It's education. And so once we figure that out, it becomes a step to the next thing as opposed to a stop. I've already forgotten the other two. All right, so what are the other two?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

That's perfectionism.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Perfectionism. Ah, perfectionism is it's uh it would be like a golem, a golem of armor that is the most pristine, the most beautiful, the the the perfect type of thing, because that is perfectionism. But the problem is is perfectionism is a hollow item. There is no such thing as being perfect. And so this beautiful, pristine armor that is alive and coming at you, the reality is filled with vapor. And so the easiest way to do to destroy that is to break it down and recognize the ghost that's inside. And what was the last one?

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Fear.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Fear. Fear is one that we all have. I mean, unfortunately, that's just the the dark brooding thing. And and the best way I love this uh the way that fear is applied in a lot of video games. I'm a huge gamer, is that it's always the shadow version of yourself. And so if I was to play against fear, the fear is me. Because uh the reality is is you know, we always get up in our head again about how, you know, oh, they're thinking this and the customer's not doing this and all that. But the reality is it's just you projecting. 99.9% of the time, people are not thinking about you as much as you think they are that they are. And so the big fear is you. And so the best way to deal with that is to understand who you are in business or in life, and then do a lot of self-reflection. And then that shadow, and then it basically shines a light on the shadow you, on your fear. And you just see that really it's just your shadow that you've been chasing.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

That's amazing. You know, uh, what kind of makes me think back a little bit is fear is actually a part of us, it's a part of who we are. So we really need to embrace that fear, we need to embrace that shadow. So the thing that comes into my mind, I remember watching um watching uh Star Wars, a cartoon Star Wars where Yoda was facing dark Yoda. I don't know if you remember that one or not. And and they would fight and fight and fight, and it was just a complete stalemate. But when the regular Yoda said something along the lines of, you are me, and I accept you for who I am because you're part of me, he was able to not so much defeat him, but taking him, take him into himself. And whenever I think about fear, that's the first thing that comes into my head is the understanding that if as long as we could accept fear as part of who we are, then we'll be a lot better off because without light there is dark, without dark, there is light. Cliche, cliche, cliche. But yeah, so that's what I think about.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're you're spot on there. I mean, and that's and that's the big thing is like uh when creatives, you know, because I deal a lot with the creative people, and in every artist is a creative, but not every creative is an artist. So I work with a lot of people in a lot of different fields. But when they want to make that leap into entrepreneurialism, it's that fear, that fear, that fear of taking that first step or of opening the door into new opportunities, it's always there and it's always inside of us. Um, you know, and and that is it's laid the groundwork for that is laid from the time you're born up until the time you make that decision to go. I mean, it's everything environmental, personal, everything that's this piling into that. But the reality is exactly what you said. It is you. And so if we can make that first step, and the best way to do it is to be informed about who we are and what we can do, just like Yoda did.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Exactly. And then we got to get across the start line. That's what I call that. We gotta whether it's like a little dinky step, whether it's talking to somebody like like you, Paul, or reading a book or something like that, we have to take that first step because without that getting across the start line, there's no getting across a finish line. It's just how it works. Absolutely. Yeah, 100% agree. All right, that's awesome. So I understand how you're working here, but I would I'd like to go back 20 years ago. Let's go back 20 years ago. What kind of made you think he's made you think, okay, this is what I want to be? This is what I want to do. I'm really curious about that.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Yeah, I really wish somebody would ask me that question because I still don't know what I want to do or what I want to be. But I can I can get you back to where I was at that time. So 20 years ago, um, I was a college professor. I was teaching design for theater, and I hated it. Um, I love teaching the students, hated the bureaucracy that was the university system. And basically, I was looking for an out. And uh I just so happened to have a student. This is when the Nintendo Wii came out. I don't know if you remember that old gaming thing back in the day. And they had your avatar, and there was called a me. And he had to ask me if I could sculpt him a me of himself and his girlfriend at the time and uh as just a like a gift. I'm like, yeah, sure, not a problem. So I made it for him, whatever. And what I didn't know, and again, this is really early in the internet days, and so it was before there was everybody had YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, all that stuff. And what I didn't know is he had taken pictures of it and submitted it to a basically a blog called Super Punch, and it's big nerdy blog, whatever. And he gave him my contact information, and basically orders started pouring in more and more orders. And what happened was I started making more money on a side hustle than I was at teaching, and I was loving it. And so the end of that year came, school year came up, and I said to my wife, I said, Hey, can I stop being a professor and try to do this like freelance art thing full time? And she thought I was crazy, but she said, Look, I'll give you one year, and if you don't, then you go get another job. I'm like, Okay, absolutely. And then I I stumbled upon a viral idea, like I don't know, four months into it, and I made $50,000 in six weeks. And she's like, I think you got an idea of what to do here. And it's that was that was the beginning of the of this whole career thing for me. So it was it was really a matter of desperation. It was like I just I wasn't happy with what where I was. It's not what I went to school. I didn't go to school to be a professor, I went to school to be a designer, really, but in theater. But then I that kind of ended abruptly, and then I came up with an idea for a product, but then that one ended abruptly because of changes in technology, and then I found myself in that professor's situation, and I just was looking for something that would allow me to be basically the hero of my own adventure rather than playing somebody else's game.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Oh, that's a great way to put that. I love that. And the thing that kind of pops out for me is when you want to start something, you could always and do it just like you did. Give yourself a deadline to come to a specific point to make that crack decision whether you're gonna go one way or the other. But you could always, if it doesn't fall back or it doesn't work out, you can always get another job. There's always plenty of jobs out there. There's there's lots of things you can do to fall back on. And the thing is, too, is it's not always as secure as you think it is. I mean, you're probably more secure doing what you're doing now than you would if you were working a regular job.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Oh, yeah, my old professor job is gone. It got a it got eliminated. So yeah, I would have been out on it on my own regardless. So yeah, you're not wrong.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

And and the thing that sticks out for me too is just because we start somewhere doesn't mean that's where we're gonna end up. You you got a degree in something, but you probably if at all you never used it. And if you did, it was only for a short time. Correct. But you ended up doing something that you love, and that's when we know we're working in our zone of genius, and that's a big, big part of what I talk about in my podcast is working in our zone of genius because you know if you're working in your zone of genius, you're doing something that you love and you're gonna do it forever. And you know, at that point, you don't even care if you get paid. Paid is get is like it's like, oh, I get paid to do this too. That's great. You know, it's like an extra. But you get so much fulfillment from doing what you love, and seeing the faces of people light up will never, never equal the amount of money that you're gonna get in your life because it's such a great feeling.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yep. At the end of the game here, when you're when you're when you're dead and gone, I'd rather fill a church with pews of people I've helped than to fill it full of the dollars of the people that have the money that I took is really how I'd like to look at that. So it's for me, it's it is about touching glass. I unfortunately money is an a is is a deadly asset that you have to have. You know, we all got to earn our our gold pieces. But the reality is, is if I could help everyone for free, I absolutely would. I'd make a horrible Batman because I just couldn't be the rich philanthropist. I would just be giving it all away.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

I think we're all kind of like that in one way, shape, or form. So don't feel too bad about it. So given given what I've talked about as far as like the four hurdles stop and things like that, what do you think stops most entrepreneurs from getting across the startling? I mean, what is your take? What is your experience? We're helping with other people get started on things. What do you think stops them the most?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Honestly, it's it's that inner shadow. It's 100% what it is. It's that it's that beast telling them that they can't. Um, I found that once I can get the snowball rolling, once I can get them to take that first step to get on the journey, then it just kind of runs because they're doing something that, like you mentioned, they love, they're passionate about it. It's that thing, it doesn't necessarily need to be their full-time job. It can start off as a side hustle, that's fine. But once you start getting momentum in it, it just runs itself. It's really getting them off the couch, getting them outside of their head, telling them that it doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to start. We can perfect it down the line. You know, it's all about just making that first step and working forward. That's the biggest obstacle that I run into people because creative people have great ideas. Entrepreneurs have great ideas. And they're and if it's not this one, it's this next one. It's not that one, it's another one. And one of the things that I've that's a great like motivator is showing people who've had great ideas and sat on it, and then see somebody take that same idea, uh a poorer version of it, and come out into the market with it. And they're like, I came up with that years ago. And I'm like, Yeah, but you didn't do anything with it. There's your motivation. Their next idea, be the person who put it out there so that someone else could be like, Man, I had that idea, but they came out with it first.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

And that goes into start something too. It's like, that's happened to me a couple of times. I do have to say that, where it's like, oh, I I had that idea months ago. What happened? And the thing is, is when you have an idea, when something comes across you the first time, if you don't act on it now, then the universe will find somebody else to do it for you. Or because that's kind of how it works. The universe puts things out there for people to find. And if if the universe thinks it needs to be, and this kind of sounds kind of weird. If the universe thinks it needs to be done and you don't do it, then the universe is going to find somebody else because it needs to be put out into this world. So why not you? Why don't you take that first step and getting across the start line and have the the calling of the universe be you?

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Absolutely. We're all handed quests. And if you don't believe us, I can give you a great example. If you've ever seen movies come out and they come out like, why is that theme like two or three movies at the same time? Where volcano came out at the same time as some other movie, you know, it's like the disaster movies always come out, seem to come out in twos and threes. It's the same thing. The universe is putting the idea out there and people are latching on to it. And it's the same thing in life. I mean, everybody has great ideas and they seem to come out of nowhere. And it's not, it's the universe kind of throwing them out there. And it's just like finding a quest. You the quest giver just, you know, comes on high, the yellow box pops up in front of you and says, Here's the quest, accept yes or no. And it's those people who hover on that, I'm not sure somebody else is gonna hit click yes and go.

unknown 19:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Oh, I love, I love the uh I love the way you put that. That's so awesome. Because that happens to us all the time. We have to be able to press that yes button and not have and not over overthink. It's okay to think about it, sure, but don't overthink about it because it's gonna be too late.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yep. Yep. Strike while the iron's hot, that's what they say.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

That that's right. And things start to happen to you when you get across the start lane. When you actually hit that go button, it's so strange how the world around you warps into something positive for yourself that's gonna keep you going, keep you going because people are starting to find you. Things are starting to happen around you because you put your energy into universe house to say yes. Then suddenly, okay, let's throw he said yes, let's throw him this positive thing, let's throw him that because that's what happens. That's what's happened to me five years into this, and I'm meeting people like you, Paul, which is absolutely fantastic, I gotta tell you. Um but other people too, like I've met Pat Flynn, I've met people at Podcast, I've done my first stage talk recently. It's it's been amazing. But none of that would have happened if I didn't get across the start line. And all those positive, positive things just kind of like popped up. I didn't ask for it, it just kind of happened. And that's kind of how it works. At least that's how I think it kind of works.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

No, it absolutely does. Opportunity begets opportunity, and it's because they understand there's a willingness to try. That's the thing that a lot of people don't under, don't grasp right away, is that when you make that first decision to just risk it for the biscuit, then other risks come at you. And you're like, well, I've already risked it once and nothing bad happened. Let's try it again. Let's try it again. And what you're doing is you're just opening yourself up to opportunities, and then opportunities begin opportunities, especially when you're doing something that you're passionate about, because then people understand that enthusiasm that you bring to it. And they're like, Oh, I want to follow that person. This person's always doing these great things. And so they'll throw, can you do this too? Yeah, sure, I can do that. And it just builds this momentum. It's really nice.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

And if you do have a passion for something, there's always a way to turning into something that somebody else needs a service or maybe even it's uh for example like I listen to two or three D podcasts right so they're making a living playing DD. Come on now. Really? There's nothing I mean for me there's nothing better than that. There can't be anything better than that to to get paid to play DD, right? So there's always it's there's always like the one person that says hey I want to do games. Great. Do you want to make games? Do you want to there's even playing video games there is a way to make a business out of it and to make money out of it and to help other people to do it. So don't be afraid to get across the start line and see if it's something that's viable. Work in your zone of genius as much as humanly possible and positive things will come your way. Yeah that's right that's right do it just do it right be a be a Nike shoe and just do it right that's right just do it okay so I know you've been on a couple a couple podcasts before and you I'm sure you've always heard what was your hardest pitfall what was the hardest problem you went through blah blah blah blah blah. So I'd like to put a little bit of a spin on that. I would like to know is what's the hardest pitfall that you came across that you're proud of it as a matter like kind of like I'm glad I went through this pitfall and problem because this positive thing came out of that that would changed everything. Do you have anything like that ever happened to you?

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Absolutely so uh when I was just starting out as a as a young buck out there doing my first adventures whatnot I had gotten this job interview to basically design a regional campaign an ad for a grocery store chain. It's like sure absolutely so the guy who owned the grocery store he's like yeah we're gonna meet on this day and here's my original idea and it was for something called major savings and it was a dancing marching bear in a drum core outfit and I'm like okay cool. And I actually went and you know I'm I'm a guy who likes to do my research so I went and did my due diligence and whatever and I was like and so when I went and talked to him I was like hey uh I love the dancing bear but you know there's not a lot of bears grocery shopping so what we need to do is think about your actual customer. I said like 96% of shoppers are female. So I actually had an illustration of my wife and I'm like you know like this I think it should be this not a dancing bear and you know this person could talk to women say hey you know you're the shoppers of the family you're here to save money all of this and it would just be like a one-on-one and he's like oh that's a really good idea what we'll do is we'll we'll think about it and I'll get back to you. Like okay cool. Never heard back from that guy. Six weeks later I get a flyer in the mail my wife's picture is on his flyer then her cartoon is on the television. And so I sued the guy because I'm like you stole my art you stole my ID you stole all this and so we went before a judge and the judge is like uh did you invent women I'm like well no I didn't invent women he's like all right throwing the case out and I'm like okay so as I'm leaving the guy who owned the grocery store came up and he patted me on the back and he goes next time don't give away all your good ideas before you sign a contract and I was like wow wow okay so you know I was at the time really kind of upset about this and I fumed on it but then the more it started to sink in I was like wow that's that's great advice because I'm a helpful person. I I would like I said I would help anybody for free. But then I realized that sometimes the person that you're helping is the goblin king and they're there to stab you in the back. And so I was like that's really good advice to know and so what now what I do is I tease the ideas. I don't give out the ideas and that's saved my bacon more times than you can count throughout my career. So I'm glad that it started when it did horrible that I went through it and I had to pay lawyer fees and it's all new territory for me. But now I can also give that advice to other people who are starting out it's like don't be so generous. Don't be guarded but don't be so generous as because the thing that people are paying for is not the fact that you can do the work it's the ideation that ideas are worth way more gold than the the person who can actually do the work. So just keep that stuff to yourself.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yes that's actually fantastic advice and I'm definitely going to take that to heart too because I'm a really softhearted kind of guy and I'll sit down because I'm a coach but I find myself like talking for these people for two hours on a free chance free you know free coaching just giving them everything. I'm going like well now they don't need me anymore.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

It's like I'm talking to a mirror what is this we should just be in Scooby voice right now because it's just yeah it's it's I'm the that's right I it's uh 100% it's like I I I do that I find myself doing that often and and the the reason is is because you and I assume you're the same way. You genuinely want to help people and that's that's why you do what you do. It's why I do what I do. And I I hate to see somebody struggle. I'm literally working with a client right now she's hemming and hawing over the price and the timing and all this and I'm like you know I here here's what you need to know and I'm like no don't but I I'm like it would be so easy for me because I have the information. I don't like to be a gatekeeper. You know and I'm just like I just want to be generous with it. But at the same time there's got to be something that makes us valuable in a way that somebody wants to pay for this and unfortunately talking is a really weird intangible you know like I could give you a book and be like this is $50 or whatever it is you know whereas advice from my mouth see is a weird intangible like how do you put a price on that especially when I'm willing to talk to you for free. So you've got to build in these safeguards and and what I find is that there is everybody has the same pain points and we can talk to them about that without giving them the specifics that they need that they would have to pay for uh not that there has to always be the barrier of pay but you know what I mean it's just but enough to that they pay for it so that they there's value in the thing they get but I've also found and maybe you'll agree with me on this one that sometimes when you give the advice for free they don't take it because it's value less and it's when you apply the price to it it hurts them a little bit that they're like I paid for this I better do it.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

So yeah putting skin in the game for people it makes a big difference. I've noticed that too in a couple of things that I've done um I okay I'm gonna give away a little secret here y'all um I do have a podcast network called PodNation Media Network and there's a there's about 11 or 12 of us on there. Now the guy I got it from he literally just gave it to me and said here I can't do this anymore and he was doing everything for free he was giving away everything he was doing this posting he was doing this everything for free um and which was fine but we weren't getting anywhere that's just it because we weren't it we hadn't made any kind of money at all to be able to put get advertising out there or get you know anything. So once I started actually even charging just a minute amount it's not a really big amount that I charge just a little amount monthly to you know keep the lights on to be able to keep the services going more now we're actually seeing some affiliates come in now we're seeing a little more pull in in our our downloads and things like that because now we have skin in the game so being able to charge isn't so much about hey I need the money but it's it's also a service to the other person to give them the drive to implement what you're trying to teach them. Because otherwise it's free. They're just gonna throw it away or they're gonna use oh that was good okay I don't need this anymore. No I paid for this you know how hard it is for me to buy something and just throw it away it just I keep it I'm almost like a hoarder when it comes to stuff like that because I spent money on this thing. So I kind of have that same kind of feeling when it comes to to products and things like that for services or even just coaching uh now because I have a different type of respect for it. So that's kind of how I feel about it that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yeah yeah you nailed it that's exactly that's exactly the thing it's that little bit of pain that you have to incur to be able to make it it's it's a it's like growing you know growing pains. It's all of those things that we that it hurts but then we recognize that it has value it has weight to it. Whereas the things that are waved in front of us for free they don't have much weight and so they can just flutter away or they get tossed. I mean if you've ever been to a trade show and you've gotten all the freebies that come in there and you put it in your bag and you get home with your bag and you're like trash because most of it isn't worth anything you know and it's like it was it was a fun experience in the moment I liked collecting all the things I'm a pack rat. But at the end of the day it's like well I don't really need 75 pens. So you know just tossing it you know it's like it doesn't have any weight. But if I had gone there and I had gotten in I paid money to get an autographed version of something I'm not throwing that away don't have that on my wall. That's a permanent thing. It's because it cost me something it it hurt a little there for you. It's the same thing with advice all right that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Thank you so much Paul that's awesome so what I'd like to do here is if you came across a brand new entrepreneur that's just getting started I mean you did you you met them in the coffee shop or in the dungeon or however you want to however you want to put it for yourself and you found out they're just starting an entrepreneurial adventure what one good solid piece of advice would you give them what one good solid step would you have them take?

SPEAKER_00 31:06

I ask them two questions. This is the answer. The first question is what are you passionate about? Easy enough everybody can answer that one. This is the real advice what do you do with that passion that makes you stand out from everyone else who has the same passion. That's the advice that's the best advice I can give you because once you know that that's the seed to your business. Grab onto that plant it water it's you know pay attention to it every single day it turns into the tree that is your business. So understand what your passion is and hang on to it.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

And I see that's what you've done. Your passion about yeah look it's right literally your passion about business and your passion about DD how do you mesh these things two together to help other people learn what they're gonna do and how much more fun can it be with with being in your passion of being a dungeon master or or being a player or anything else when it comes to that so that's fantastic advice all right so I have a tradition I have with all my guests in the next six months where do you see yourself in your company do you have a six month goal for yourself I do I do indeed uh so in six months I'm trying to get onto a live stage panel to really talk about this.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

So I am actually in right in the middle of what's called the thousand asks challenge. I'm trying to ask for a thousand things that I want out of my business. And these are some of these are like swing for the fences type of uh asks and some of them are pretty basic you know like some of them were applying to be on some cool podcasts like this one. And other ones are you know like really monumental ones. And so for me it's really getting in front of a public stage and sh and playing this game live with some people in a full house. That's my six month goal.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

All right that's awesome. So I'd like to do with you Paul is follow up with you in six months. Sure. See if you've achieved that goal and see you know what other new experiences you've had in the business world. Is that okay? Yeah please do that'd be great. Awesome because you're not just accountability that's right you're not just accountable to me you're accountable to all my school believers out there so no pressure.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Oh great love love some pressure.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

All right awesome all right Paul this is your time to shine this is a time where I want you to advertise yourself how to get a hold of you and all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Okay ready set so what you can do is you can get a hold of me over at gamifybusiness.com that's g-a-m-i-f y business dot com gamify business and there you can actually take a personality quiz which can teach you who you are in business it's a class assignment so you'll find out if you're a wizard or a warrior or a sage and then we'll actually send you a nice little deep dive into your personality gets free of charge no no must no fuss so you can find everything there. I also sell five books uh the creator players handbook the game master's guide to business I have a workbook that goes with the player's handbook I also have quit selling your stuff there's an expletive in there but I don't like to say it on shows that I don't know if I can and then the other one is sell yourself which is the Bard's guide to storycraft you can picture pick all those books up over at gamifybusiness.com the two paperbacks are also available on Amazon if you'd like to pick them up.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Awesome we're actually going to link all that into the show notes so you don't have to go too far all you do is just go into the show notes click on the link and you will see how to get those amazing amazing books. Paul this has been an absolute treat this has to be the most fun I've had in a podcast in a really really long time so thank you thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Thank you Scoob I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

All right all right scoob believers make sure you stay tuned for the wrap up okay everybody bye bye all right that was a great conversation we have Paul today. Thank you so much Paul for taking the time to be on the Undiscovered entrepreneur I really hope you took a lot away from this I know I certainly did because this really combined two of my most favorite things and that's business and business ethics and how we start businesses and Dungeons and Dragons and using our imaginations to do things. But what if we were always able to combine two things that we really love into something and kind of gamify it. Turn it into something that you know you love and you want to do so much that it just you just do it over and over again and it's all like a game. Just like Paul did when he turned business into Dungeons and Dragons something that he loved. He gamified it he turned it into something that was fantastic for him that was just like a game and you are able to do the same thing with your business turn it into something that you love to do. Find a way to combine two things or even three things that you love to do most and turn it into one solid cohesive thing that you love to do. And remember that your biggest competitor isn't actually the market it's the shadow version of yourself. Finding a combination just like I'm talking about a combination of the light and the dark together how both you have. Just like when I talk about this that you're perfectionism these are all dark things that we can turn into a tool something that we can use in our entrepreneur adventure that drives you forward it is something new something great but there's no way to get there unless we have the dark things first and have those moments where it seems bad at the moment but if we run towards it we jump over the herd we jump over we get through the darkness and find the light on the other side. There is always a way to do it don't doubt yourself. Go forward with yourself find a way to get over the herd and remember that the universe rewards used if we have an idea if we come across somebody or something that has a fantastic thought to it and we don't act on it now we don't act on it right when we think about it. The universe will find somebody else to do it for it just like we talked about it in the podcast. And while we're sitting on our hands trying to make it perfect somebody's gonna build a lesser first idea that you had and then make waves with it and you're sitting in the back wondering that couldn't be me. Why didn't we do it? So let's take action on our thoughts let's take action on our ideas now before this universe gives somebody else the opportunity to come up with your idea. And with that I want to say thank you very much Scuba Leavers for another fantastic episode and I will see you in two weeks. Thank you everybody bye bye and there you have it future entrepreneurs we've taken a vital step on the journey across the star line remember every great business begins with a single idea and the courage to pursue it and you've already shown that courage just by being here today. As to wrap up this episode of the Undiscovered entrepreneur get across the star line I want you to reflect on the path you have to recognize the four hurdles of stop is it a poster syndrome holding you back? Is it perfectionism failure or fear? Identifying which one affects you the most is the key to unlocking your momentum. But here's the real secret the hurdles are not in the way they are the way every time you clear one you're building the exact strength you need for your journey ahead. Until our next episode keep pushing keep dreaming and keep jumping over those hurdles to scoop your guide across the start line remember your future is waiting. I can I am I will and I'm doing it today